OT: Do any of you have/had a co-dependent relationship w/ a parent?

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JustTaryn	OT: Do any of you have/had a co-dependent relationship w/ a parent?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 530 07/01/09 15:42:03	My therapist has concluded this is a major problem in my life. My relationship with my mother is loaded with toxicity. To sum it up succinctly, the song Mamma Mia basically describes word-for-word what our relationship is like. To follow the song, I'm heartbroken that I will never be able to have the relationship I want with her, when she doesn't call me (i.e. "leaves"), I feel frantic with guilt and abandoned, when I try to forget her for awhile, she occupies a spot in my mind so powerful that everything else just fades and I can't stop focusing on it and I start to feel physically ill. There's never been abuse, drinking or drugs involved. It's all passive-aggressive mind stuff that has gone on for years and years. I'm like her mental prisoner and she has no idea of it. She wants me to be a cookie-cutter child and if I dare to be different, everything derails. Do you have any experiences to share? My therapist suggested that I attend a group that meets to discuss co-dependency issues. Formerly TMB1975 Last Edited By: JustTaryn 07/01/09 15:44:08. Edited 1 time.
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BunnyHop		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 146 07/01/09 16:22:12	Bearing in mind that I've got family issues of my own, here are some questions to ask yourself: Why are you so convinced she has no idea? If your relationship is unhealthy, it's a two way street. A 'cookie cutter child' ?? That's actually quite a precise and rigid description. I'm betting that you use that phrase based on a lots of experience coping with some really exacting expectations. Do you keep a journal or diary of your interactions? Note her exact words, her tone, her attitude. Write it down. It's hard to keep your rose colored glasses in place when someone's actual words reveal the narcissism they'd prefer you didn't notice or discuss. How's your energy level when you're with her? And after you leave her? When you're getting ready to see her? Do you ever feel as though other people were in charge of deciding what mood you're allowed to be in? Think of it as riding a roller coaster, with someone else in charge of the controls, someone who's oblivious to your needs. Exhausting, right? P.S. I realize that this is a sensitive topic, and there's no need to go into great detail with your thoughts here, but I hope that you find my input useful.
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The BrowneyedGirl		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 524 07/01/09 16:40:55	I don't have issues w/ my own parents, but my own experience w/ getting through co-dependent relationships boiled down to control issues: what I was willing to give up (controlling) and what I was willing to control (more healthy aspects of a friendship). I'm sorry you're suffering. I don't have anything significant to add except for virtual support.
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JustTaryn		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 530 07/01/09 16:43:26	She picks at me regarding my personality issues, yet when I tell her she has issues of her own (I don't want to get into it since anything you put on here is available forever on the internet) she tells me not to take that tone with her and threatens to hang up or gets really miffed. Then she plays the game where she won't call me for over a week. Then I feel the need to call her because it eats at me endlessly. Through this, I give her control and she rules how the conversation will go. Yet I can't stop, at least not yet. I need more therapy I guess. I know I'm 50% responsible for this. I choose to call her and grovel, listen to the chronic complaints, deal with the negativity, etc. and feel guilt over it. I'm not what she wants. I don't want kids, I'm not big on socializing, I don't even dress the way she likes. It's a chronic ping-pong match and usually I just squelch all of my feelings because if I bring them up, she gets so drastically hurt by them that it's just not worth the effort. My therapist tells me "Don't go to the Coke machine for orange juice", meaning don't expect to get anything different out of her when she has proven time and again she's not open to any real discussion about these issues and I get the same reaction each time. It's getting to be emotionally exhausting. When I see my parents, I get butterflies in my stomach on the ride over. I usually take a Xanax. We get along during the visit, but when I leave, I feel this subtle guilt, like she doesn't want me to go. I choose not to visit often because there are just so many reasons I won't go into for fear of boring you all. A journal is a good idea. It would be very helpful to discuss in detail with my therapist the patterns of the calls. Formerly TMB1975 Last Edited By: JustTaryn 07/02/09 08:36:36. Edited 2 times.
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Donna Panel		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1101 07/01/09 16:48:15	Co-dependent Anonymous is a great place to go. They use the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and that offers a way of living that anyone can benefit from, even if no substance abuse is involved. My issues with my mother sound very much like yours, but I went to Al-Anon because of my husband. It deals with co-dependency issues and that's when I saw that I also had issues with my mother. All that passive-aggresive behavior and manipulation and of course everything was always about her. She wanted me to be who she wanted me to be and that was that. Anyway, I learned a lot about co-dependency and I just do not put up with it in any form in my life. Fair w/yellow undertones, MAC C2, skin normal in winter, oily in summer, medium red hair, green hazel eyes.
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vampygirl13		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 868 07/02/09 04:01:00	Taryn- Sending you hugs. No matter what relationship you have with your parent(s), it can be hard! My brother and I have figured out my mom is a baby bi-polar. We both have had issues with her in the past (me to the point where we didn't speak for 3 months) and my brother when she finally figured out he was gay (everyone else knew!). Basically is IS about control. You have to be in control of what you are going to let eat at you what you just have to let go. I used to get so upset and everything my mom said and would fight with her and she just didn't get it and to this day somewhat does not. She's manipulative and controlling, but she has a heart of gold and would do anything for me. She has suffered her own abandonment issues with a terrible childhood and I see why she behaves this way. However, certain things I just do not tolerate any more. I just tell her off and do not let her talk. Sorry for the rambling---but you need to talk to her and tell her how you feel, even if it doesn't do any good. And you need to get control of your feelings and decide what you can deal with what you can't and make those boundaries stick for you. Once I did that with my mom we started getting along much better. She still pushes my buttons sometimes but my brother and I try to laugh about it more than we get angry. vampygirl 13 Melissa: hair that constantly changes color (light blonde at the moment), blue-gray eyes, PPP with acne-prone skin. Addicted to MAC and Aromaleigh, and I love e-tailers!
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DaenaCat		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 337 07/02/09 04:21:44	I think I did, for most of my life. My mother has Borderline Personality Disorder (you might read up about it -- there may be info that would enlighten you about your mother if she's a BPD-type)... and is much the way you describe in her expectations of me. She cannot take even the slightest disagreement or what she perceives as criticism and is totally and only black-and-white in her thinking and opinions of people. It really has taken me a looong time to get out of that trap that I felt like I was in my whole life and it was not and IS not easy, especially as she share a house. I've never met anyone who could so easily made me feel worthless and so unloveable. But I had to realize -- that this was MY problem and I had to find a way to deal with it. In other words -- she can't change. I really don't think it's possible with her mental illness. So I had to find a way to not let HER mental illness affect ME. Most of the time, I can manage that. Sometimes it's hard, especially if I am otherwise under stress (physical or emotional stress). I am really not one to cry "mental illness!" at people as a reason or excuse for their actions... but I think when dealing with toxic people there are coping mechanisms and healthy strategies that can be learned by studying these things. big hugs "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." -- Oscar Wilde
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cosmeticjunkie		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 718 07/02/09 04:33:34	Many here know my story. I won't go into it but in the end, I walked away from her. She is now referred to as "she who birthed me". Remember that it takes two. Look into understanding the "why" as in why you feel the need to have a toxic person in your life. Why you allow (and yes, you allow it ) to continue since you are an adult and have your own life. Why her approval and her presence is so important to you. I understand you wanting a "mom". God, I so wanted that but it isn't in the cards for me. I watch other mothers and daughters doing things, having a normal relationship where there is support, understanding, and RESPECT and I think "why wasn't I worthy of this? why wasn't I good enough for this? Does God hate me that much that I am to have NO love from my own mother except for this twisted toxic shit?" I mourned for what COULD have been if: she was willing to accept responsibility, accept blame (her share), make changes- none of which she would do. I mourned for the mother I WANTED to have, I WISH I had. And then.... I moved on. It's hard. You feel... alone for awhile. And then you realize you are stronger and you will continue to grow and be your own person. You can wish and be sad and it will accomplish nothing for you can't change or fix anyone or anything other than yourself and your own situation. Remember this: you are NOT alone in this situation. So many of us HERE have this situation. Some of moved on, some are in the thick of it. But you are not alone. Hugs to you. CJ Casper white w/pink undertones, dark brown hair and brown/greenish eyes. "Always remember that true beauty comes from within- from within bottles, jars, compacts and tubes."
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vampygirl13		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 868 07/02/09 04:42:15	Daena I was hoping you would answer since I think our moms are related! I need to look up more on BPD although my mom would never admit she has it! vampygirl 13 Melissa: hair that constantly changes color (light blonde at the moment), blue-gray eyes, PPP with acne-prone skin. Addicted to MAC and Aromaleigh, and I love e-tailers!
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baileybreathe		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 28 07/02/09 07:59:03	I read this recently and loved it. Hope it helps. "There is no more difficult time in adulthood than when the fog of childhood is lifted and you realize that your parents are just people." My mother is a sweet, southern woman from Vidalia, Georgia who is the epitome of a steel magnolia. It has taken me years to figure out that she has frustration, anger, regrets and fears just like everyone else and being a sensitive child, I sensed all these feelings growing up but outwardly she didn't appear to be that way, and I couldn't figure it out. Now I know she did not know how to express her "negative" side (what good 1950's woman did) so it comes out in little passive/aggressive ways. I am working on my stuff and as much as I love her, I now realize that I am a separate and complete person and she is my mother, I love her, she loves me, but I am who I am.
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MeganGMcD		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 365 07/02/09 08:29:45	My mother and I are actually very close. She has been my rock during some of life's most trying times. BUT...no matter how great a mother/daughter relationship is...there is always tension. My mom grew up as a child of an alcoholic, and when I finally accepted that my grandparents didn't always walk on water...I became more forgiving of my mother. My parents also grew up in very different ethnic cultures. It sounds bizarre but my mom came from a crazy Italian/Lebanese family with issues about how things should be "done" family loyalty, etc. I swear to GOD she is Caroline from the RHWNJ, if Caroline went to a few feminist rallies. I just DON'T have ideas on how things should be "done" and it drives her crazy. My dad's family is straight Irish Catholic we get upset, we drink, we laugh, we move on. Sure I antagonize my mom and it isn't always helpful. BUT I have identified the situation and can deal with it through humor. I think identifying is a part of the healing. I've always been a big fan of beauty. Sure, you can't judge a book by its cover but who wants to have sex with a book?- Stephen Colbert
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JustTaryn		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 530 07/02/09 08:34:49	DaenaCat wrote: But I had to realize -- that this was MY problem and I had to find a way to deal with it. In other words -- she can't change. Daena, this right here perfectly sums up my situation. I'm just not doing all that well at finding a way to deal with my guilt and various emotions that come from our conversations and relationship. It's weird - there's good days and bad. Some conversations are perfectly fine, like the one I had today. Others just go completely haywire. I think this is where keeping a journal like BunnyHop suggested might help. I can track the patterns of the calls and maybe figure out what I'm doing wrong. I wouldn't cut her out of my life because it's not all bad (like your mom, Vampy, my mom would do a lot for me if I was in a bad way), but I do need to find ways to deal with this passive-aggressive behavior. She doesn't have any mental illnesses aside from depression, at least IMO. I've read about BPD and bi-polar, etc., and she doesn't fit the characteristics at all. Donna, the support group my therapist mentions uses the 12 step program too. I think it's worth going at least once to see what they have to say. Thanks for your support, everyone. It's nice to know I can always come here and find people who are dealing with similar issues. PS...I think I'll edit my second post a bit because I'm paranoid of what can be found on the internet. Formerly TMB1975
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Donna Panel		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1101 07/02/09 08:56:42	DaenaCat wrote: She cannot take even the slightest disagreement or what she perceives as criticism and is totally and only black-and-white in her thinking and opinions of people. That sounds exactly like my mother. I finally ended up severing ties with her for my own mental health. Taryn, I can't tell you how many lives I've seen changed by the 12 Steps. I hope you get something out of the meeting. Give it a couple of tries and if one group isn't doing it for you, find and try another one. ((((hugs)))) Fair w/yellow undertones, MAC C2, skin normal in winter, oily in summer, medium red hair, green hazel eyes.
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cider8		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 200 07/02/09 08:58:36	Al-anon has saved my life. I don't have much of a co-dependent relationship with my parents, but after being in the 12-step program I am able to recognize certain behaviors. I'm also able to recognize co-dependent behaviors in myself and I've found tools for working on them. Are either of your parents children of addicts? Being raised by an ACA can make the co-dependency thrive. I highly recommend attending a 12 step support group. If you don't like the first one you go to, find another. You want the change, so make it happen!! Have you started reading books by Melody Beattie? She is fantastic and very eye opening. I think you are on the right track. It seems totally unfathomable that you could change your attitude without the other person changing. I'm here to say it IS possible. Do NOT give up. The 'pain' of change is worth the result. ppp w/yellow undertones (Px ecru, DuWop Nanci), brown eyes, medium auburn & wavy hair, combo/acne prone skin
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AnnieW625		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 670 07/02/09 09:13:22	Just want to send you some good vibes from sunny CA! I have a really good relationship with both of my parents and I am very happy I have that. Sure times have been tough, but we've made it work. I can't really offer much advice on the subject but it sounds like you have a good therapist and his/her thoughts seem very mind opening and it's good that you are thinking about them. I love the don't go to the coke machine for an orange juice analogy. Annie, 32, buzzing from Lakewood, CA Simply irresistible shes so fine, theres no tellin where the money went--Robert Palmer We busted out of class had to get away from those fools, we learned more from a three-minute record than we ever learned in school--Bruce Springsteen
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vampygirl13		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 868 07/02/09 09:43:02	Megan- My mom was the same way, child of a ragin alcoholic. Amazing loyalty issues. If she and I had a fight she would try and rally friends and family to 'her' side. Still does to this day and it drives me insane! vampygirl 13 Melissa: hair that constantly changes color (light blonde at the moment), blue-gray eyes, PPP with acne-prone skin. Addicted to MAC and Aromaleigh, and I love e-tailers!
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DaenaCat		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 337 07/02/09 15:14:37	Taryn -- it is SO hard in letting go of the guilt. It really is one of the hardest lessons I've hard to learn -- and even so, I slip back into old patterns sometimes. Thankfully I can recognize that and sort of reassess things and work on it from there. The things I've learned about BPD and how to deal with people who have BPD have affected my relationships with everyone for the better. I'm much less stressed than I was. I think the coping mechanisms and way of standing up for myself without being confrontational was a skill I needed and it has really helped me in all areas. So that is why I think reading about such things can be very helpful, even if the person in question doesn't have BPD. I sometimes really wish I had a good relationship with my mother. But I've had to realize it's not possible. And at this point it's not even something I want anymore. That was a hard one to come to grips with. There's just been too much hurt, too much rage and too much history for me to even wish for it anymore. I love my mom but I know there will always be an emotional gulf between us -- one that I have created for my own emotional safety and growth. It's sad but it's just true for me. "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." -- Oscar Wilde
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CallMeJo		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 589 07/02/09 15:34:59	Let me just ask a question here about this issue. Assuming there isn't any true toxicity involved, do you understand how a parent could be disappointed that a child didn't turn out the way they had hoped? No flames, please, and I'm not even sure this question applies to any of the respondants to the OP, but I've been thinking about this in connection with another matter recently. When we birth our children, don't we have hopes, dreams, plans, expectations? And when those hopes, dreams, et al don't work out, is it not possible to love your child dearly yet be disappointed that things didn't work out the way you'd hoped.? Of course that doesn't give parents a right to be negative or mean to the child, but I can see how it could slip through from time to time. Someone up-thread mentioned her mother didn't care the way she dressed. I can honestly see how you might as a parent think "I wish she would put on something decent looking once in a while", and a perceptive child could pick up a negative vibe. Just an example. Basically I'm just thinking out loud. I'll say that sometimes our children want us to accept things that we struggle to accept (I've done this with my own mother), and it's a very difficult position for the parent as well as the child. Again, just thinking aloud and trying to see the other side of the coin.
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JustTaryn		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 530 07/02/09 20:45:00	Jo, I don't dress badly, but it's not her style. I prefer basic cuts and in neutral colors. She likes pastels and patterns, etc. She told me she could see why a teenager would want to wear black, but doesn't understand why I do. What she doesn't understand is that I'm not making statements with my clothing, it's just what I prefer and feel what looks good on me and there's nothing more to it. I'm also not going to wear pink shirts because someone else likes them on me. I've learned to dress for myself because I feel more confident that way. There's so much more that I'm not going into simply because this isn't an anonymous place and with my luck I'd have someone in my family stumble across this (unlikely, but I'm paranoid). But I am glad for the support and to know that others have similar problems that they've dealt with. Daena, I wish for it too. My husband's mother is so unconditionally supportive of him, and is always saying something positive to me about him or to him. I can't tell you how much I'd like my own mother to be like that. My husband isn't perfect, either. His mom just has a drastically different approach to life. Formerly TMB1975
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ty19		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 412 07/03/09 01:14:58	You can't change people, you can only change your reactions to them. Your mom can't be the perfect cookie cutter mom, either. She has flaws too. She has made mistakes in her life & doesn't want you to make mistakes. But the thing is, you have to live your own life. Forgive her. Forgive yourself too. Maybe you need to learn how to communicate with her better. You could say, "It hurts my feelings when you say...." But when people are just laying on criticism after criticism, sometimes you need to tell them to, "Shut up!" Simple & effective. Have you declared your independence as an adult? It's funny how we can be totally competent adults, but seeing our parents can turn us right back into little kids or whiny teenagers. When she criticizes your clothes, she thinks she is helping you to look prettier. You probably would look good in color, and wearing colors is a mood boost. (Maybe you are secretly rebelling against her?) But guess what; you are an adult and you get to dress yourself! Just say, "I like the way I dress." Women of a certain age get crazy for grandchildren. Is this hormonal or what? So they start pressuring their children to pump out some grandkids. If you don't want kids, you have to be firm about that. She is going to be disappointed, but oh well. It is YOUR LIFE. Don't let these things eat at you. Learn techniques to stop bad patterns of thinking. "Imagination rules the world."--Napoleon Pale combo skin, blue/green eyes, fine/wavy hair that is currently dyed golden blonde.
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JustTaryn		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 530 07/03/09 01:30:40	Thanks, Ty. See, my fashion inspiration is Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, and she had similar coloring to me, and she always looked fabulous in neutrals like navy, khaki, white and black. I came to realize I wanted to look at photos, take away my own ideas from them and adapt them to my lifestyle. I was always self-conscious about my clothes in my 20s, when I wore prints, ill-fitting clothing, pastel blazers and ugly pants (which my mom oddly liked). When I started dressing classically and in neutrals, I just felt a surge of confidence and more like myself. I don't think there's any rebellion behind it because I found out in fourth grade that my favorite outfit was a black sweater. I just feel that I should dress for myself and no one else. She doesn't take into account any suggestions about her clothing from when I made constructive suggestions, such as what would flatter her body shape. My adulthood around her definitely vanishes to some degree. Therapist and I are working on that also. I also picked up a book about these issues and it's helping me somewhat. As far as kids go, it's weird. She tells me she doesn't want to see innocent babies born into this horrible, chaotic world and that I wouldn't make a good mother anyway, but maybe that's denial. I'm learning to just lower my expectations of her and take what I can get. It cuts both ways. I'm not perfect either. I think the reason I don't visit much is because I was trained to be afraid of everything as a child and it continues to this day, not to mention the smothering overprotection. It astounds DH because his upbringing was the complete opposite and he's a very balanced, logical man emotionally because of it. Maybe that's my way of declaring independence. I could never say shut up, though. She will not tolerate any disrespect from me, yet oddly tolerates it from others. I don't get that. Maybe I need to work on my own issues to get a better relationship with her. Who knows? It might be all my fault. Formerly TMB1975 Last Edited By: JustTaryn 07/03/09 01:33:56. Edited 1 time.
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